What up DOImaniacs and welcome to a huge McInterview. Today, I interviewed one of the more influential men on the New Jersey wrestling scene, Ray Sager. Ray Sager started off as a wrestler for JAPW before becoming a booker for JAPW. Ray is considered by many in wrestling as one of the craziest and funniest guys in the business today. Ray took the time out to do this super detailed interview and talked about the Jersey Wrestling Wars, strip clubs, food, JAPW, and so much more. I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: How did you get into the professional wrestling business and why did you want to get into it?

Ray Sager: I was always a huge fan as a kid, I went to every Garden show starting with the night Hogan won the belt from The Iron Sheik. Growing up I still followed wrestling and became involved in amateur wrestling in high school. At that time my interest in pro wrestling faded and I became more focussed on my amateur career, which lasted 6 years and ended up coaching for 2 years at the High School level. I wasn't great but during my Junior year I was 2 matches away from making the State Tournament and was expected to make it my Senior year until I got kicked of the team for fighting after like the 3rd fight. Around 1994/1995 I was flipping through the channels on the satellite late one night at work and discovered ECW, mind you at the time I haven't watched a minute of that Doink and Outback Jack shit wrestling for a few years. What I saw on that TV show was amazing, I couldn't believe people did stuff like that. At the time I had no idea about ECW, the Indy Wrestling scene, didn't know about these inside newsletters, I was about marky as you can get. I started going to shows, actually every show. I ended up meeting a lot of the workers on the shows, became friends with a few and then I got the nerve to ask about wrestling schools. Several workers told me that they had schools and that they would train me, as long as I gave them like $2500, I saw right through that bullshit, some people fell for those scams. It wasn't till I had a conversation with Super Nova and Stevie Richards one night after a show and they gave me a shit load of advice and all of it came with absolutely zero bullshit attached to it. They told me everything I needed to know and pointed me towards Iron Mike Sharpe's Wrestling School in Asbury Park, NJ.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What was your training like and where did you train?

Ray Sager: Well, like I said above I trained at Iron Mike Sharpe's School Of Professional Wrestling in Asbury Park, NJ. I started training with one of my best friends, we used to go like an hour early and work out before anyone got there and practice what we learned the week before. Asbury Park is like town everybody forgot about, it is run down and ghetto but at the beach, the school was no better but it served its purpose and was a positive experience. Iron Mike Sharpe is very underrated, a lot of great talent came out of that wrestling school. There was two rings, one was made out of wood, the other was an old boxing ring with no spring, STIFF, was an under statement. My second week in, The Equalizer, who liked to break in the new guys, wanted to give me a suplex with like zero training, stupid me I did it lol, and we cracked the wooden ring and went right down to the floor lol. I got to work extensively with Ace Darling, Crowbar, Bam Bam Bigelow, Nova, and Jimmy Shoulders. Magic was also a huge help at Sharpes. I learned a hell of a lot from those guys. There was also so many other Indy guys that were around and helped out but it would take forever to name them all. I also started wrestling school the same week as Charlie Haas, and later on Russ. Those guys were so far ahead of everybody else, and everyone knew that they "had it". I later moved on to the JAPW school and met Fat Frank and the whole JAPW crew at that time. JAPW is where I got my first huge push and got to work out with a shit load of guys at their school at the time.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: Did you always want to be a booker or did you always dream of being a successful pro wrestler?

Ray Sager: I never imagined doing either, as a kid the wrestlers were like super heroes to me, being a wrestler at that age was almost like going to the moon, something I never thought would happen. I always thought I would be a fan. As far as Booker, I didn't even know what the fuck that term meant until I was smartened up after my first couple ECW shows and sitting with a crew/group of people, some of whom remain friends today. Once I started wrestling on a regular basis, I always loved to give my input and ideas to the companies I worked for. I always loved the behind the scenes and inner workings of the wrestling business. I never thought that I would ever get the chance to book, especially for a company as good as Jersey All Pro Wrestling.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: You have booked JAPW for some time now. Going into your past, what was it like getting your start as a booker and what battles did you have to overcome to be successful?

Ray Sager: I feel like I have been in JAPW forever at this point. In 1999 I was one of the top guys in JAPW, the plan was for me to main event with Homicide at the huge anniversary show that year. The match was going to be the blow off for our feud that we had been building for almost a year, the funny thing was we never did have a singles match, it was either tag team matches or our factions at that time would feud with each other. The fans were really eating the angle up, however in 1999 I got a job offer that I could not turn down and I do not regret my decision today. I came back for a few matches in 2000 but because I could not risk an injury I was holding back and I was not the same worker I was before. I talked to Frank about me leaving JAPW again and he offered me the position of booker. Over my time in JAPW I proved to be a loyal employee and a team player and being Franks friend at the time helped as well. Angel Martinez, who was the current booker, wanted to wrestle again and Frank didn't want someone to both book and wrestle and that's why the switch was made, I retired from the ring and went behind the scenes and Angel stopped booking and started wrestling again.

The beginning was tough, I had no manual to teach me what to do. I thought I was in over my head, I did more work as booker than I ever did as a wrestler, plus instead of dealing with one or two people, I now had to deal with a whole locker room full of personalities and egos. Angel helped out in the beginning with the transition and I cant thank him enough for that, but after a few shows it was something I had to do on my own and get things done. Don Montoya was another guy that helped me out in the beginning, he gave me tons of great advice and I learned a lot from him as well, he was a great locker room leader at the time.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: JAPW has been involved in many wars with other promotions, and also allies with other promotions. What do you think about interpromotional wars?

Ray Sager: JAPW has definitely had their share of feuds and battles with other wrestling companies. Early on JAPW was very successful and I think that made us a little cocky and maybe we weren't as mature as we are now when it comes to business. We have had little squabbles here and there and then of course the fans pick up on it, then the fans for each company alienate each other, and then the loyal fans refuse to go to other shows and then that hurts both companies. Wrestlers are also affected because they feel out of loyalty that they cannot work for the other promotion, thus losing more paydays which should never happen.

JAPW starts its Seventh Year in April, that is a long time for an Independent Wrestling company. We have learned a lot over those seven years. Today, a lot of these smaller groups try and pick a fight with us hoping we will respond back to them, because for them that makes them legitimate and gives them free press and makes it seem like they are a viable promotion. In reality they have no track record, no fan base, and are trying to leech of our name. I aint beat for that bullshit anymore, I don't even entertain that shit.

As far as interpromotional wars, the WWE really fucked that up with WCW and ECW, but I think it can be good if it is done right. The show we did with ROH was a good example, it wasn't two companies fighting each other, rather we were working together. We were showcasing each others strong points with also having some inter-promotional matches that the fans would never get to see. We also did a thing with Ron Niemi's IPW out of Florida. We didn't build it as a war, but as a working agreement. The matches were made special as being announced as inter-promtoional matches, as casual fans may not know who IPW was or who there wrestlers were, same thing with JAPW in Florida. The way we announced and billed it made it special and the fans realized they were seeing something out of the ordinary. Da Hit Squad actually traveled to Florida and dropped the belts to another great tag team The Shane Brothers to add legitimacy to the angle.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: Who have been the easiest wrestlers to work with? Who have been the worst wrestlers to work with?

Ray Sager: By far the easiest guys to work with have been Da Hit Squad, Mafia and Monsta Mack. They were given the ball to be the top guys in the company and they ran with it. My favorite show is "Da Hit Squads Revenge" from the ECW Arena in Philadelphia, available at www.modtrom.com. That show was booked with them in mind, they became monster heels that night and were pretty much out for every match in some way, they took over the show, the Philly crowd really wanted to see them die. They lost the belts in a surprise match when Mikey Whipwreck returned to the ECW Arena in a surprise appearance and along with JT Jobber defeated them for the belts. The feeling in the Arena that night was magical.

Da Hit Squad elevated so many young wrestlers and by them doing the job in turn made those guys legitimate stars in JAPW. Dixie, The Insane Dragon, JT Jobber, Jay Lethal, Rain, Deranged, The Briscoes and many more were made stars in JAPW by defeating Da Hit Squad.

As far as the worst wrestlers to work with, I am really scratching my head. I cant think of too many. All workers have at least a little bit of an ego, and of course nobody ever wants to lose a match, they are only looking out for themselves, there is really nothing wrong with that, it is self preservation. I cant think of anybody I wouldn't work with again because of a problem.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What's the biggest obstacle in being a booker?

Ray Sager: I have lost a lot of friends since I have become booker. JAPW is like family and a lot of us have become friendly on the outside end of the business. When a wrestler doesn't get booked or stops getting bookings, sometimes they take it personal and don't react well. I have also lost other friends cause they ask to get booked and I have not booked them. First and foremost JAPW is a business and I am doing what is best needed to make the business a success. I need to be able to separate friendship from business, they do not go well together, I have to do what's best for the company. I also don't want to burn a guy by having him on each and every show, the fans need a break sometimes and they will get a better reaction when they return. In a perfect world I would book all my friends and a 1000 fans would show up but that just does not happen.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What is it like working with Fat Frank?

Ray Sager: It really isn't work, Frank is one of the funniest, strangest, most interesting people I have ever met. I am happy to be is friend as stressing as that can be at times. I was the best man in his wedding and I am very close to his family, we spend a lot of time together outside of wrestling. Last year when I quit JAPW it affected our friendship and that was one thing I do regret, I am glad I am back were I belong and we are friends again, except I could do without his wife's Kelbassa and Sauerkraut, I mean how many times can you eat that in a week. When the Fat Frank Shoot Video comes out, I guarantee it is going to be the most disturbing wrestling video ever produced.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What is your favorite buffet? Cheesesteak place? Beer?

Ray Sager: Yeeeeees !! A food question, I would much rather talk about this then wrestling, lol. Favorite buffet is East Star Restaurant on Main Street in Somerville, NJ. The best Chinese buffet around, better than eating at Bravado Sans house. They also have Mongolian Grill which means you pick out all the raw stuff meats, veggies, and sauce and they cook the shit right in front of you with these 3 foot chop sticks on a huge round grill. The Manor in West Orange is a sick sick buffet, all you can eat LOBSTER, but it is like 50 bucks and you got to wear a jacket, that place is for special occasions.

Best Cheesesteak place is bar none Tony Lukes on Oregon Avenue in Philadelphia, give me an excuse to go to Philly just so I can go to Tony Lukes. There is no discussions on this case closed. Gino's and Pats are for the tourists, Tony Lukes is for people who appreciate good food.

My favorite beer is any one that is ice cold, but I prefer MGD or Bud Ice.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: JAPW is considered the number one promotion in New Jersey. How does it feel being part of it and what do you have to do to keep it that way?

Ray Sager: That is a great compliment, there are tons of promotions in New Jersey and for people to consider us the benchmark in New Jersey is a very good feeling. There is also a lot of pressure on us to deliver consistent shows with quality and talent. We are also a target for other promotions, there have been a lot of underhanded shady shit done to JAPW trying to sabotage us. That shit aint gonna happen no more, we are aware of what we have to do and follow through on everything so there are no suprises. Jealousy is an ugly monster. To stay number one we have to bring our A game each and every show, we are very aware what everybody else is doing and we try to do things a little bit different. We try to keep talent fresh and we are very good at building young talent up. Look at all the talent JAPW has brought in from many far away places and now look at everyone else that is using that same talent. That is the only thing that sucks, cause we bring in someone new that hasn't been seen in this area, and then all of the sudden others are using same talent thus over exposing them in the state and area.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What do you think about the competition in New Jersey?

Ray Sager: What competition ? Nah seriously there are tons of promotions in New Jersey, there are many good ones but there are just as many shitty ones that have no business running shows. The problem with these shitty ones is that it once again is over saturation for such a small state. When a causal fan goes to town A and sees XYZ Wrestling and the show sucks, do you really expect that same casual fan to go to a show when JAPW is in town A. That is one of the things hurting New Jersey right now. I envy Frank Goodman for that cause other than NYWC, USA PRO is the only show in town in the biggest and greatest damn city in the world.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: Speaking of New York City, JAPW had plans to run New York on more than one occasion. What happened with running in New York and are there plans to run shows their in the future?

Ray Sager: We had plans to run a show in Staten Island at the Sports-Fest. We had acquired our own New York wrestling license and had all the necessary paper work in place. We were going to do the first ever match between Low Ki and Jerry Lynn, at the time it was going to be a huge match. There was a huge rap concert scheduled at the Sports-Fest a week before our show. I think the local community didn't want to have any part of that and the fire department went in a demanded that they get all these permits and officials to be at the show and unfortunately that would have applied to us too. That would have cost us a few thousand dollars more and made the show unviable for us. New York to begin with has a lot of fees and costs involved from the Athletic Commission alone, these added fees just made it impossible from a business standpoint. Thank god it didn't happen because I really don't trust that area, the great thing about running in New York is the mass transportation, Staten Island just doesn't have that infrastructure like queens and Manhattan has, other than the busses which is a pain in the ass.

JAPW would still love to run New York and we are still actively looking for a facility, it is not a top priority but if we can make it happen I guarantee that JAPW's New York debut will be our biggest show ever in terms of talent and matches.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: In 2003, JAPW lost their home building in Bayonne. Do you think JAPW has rebounded?

Ray Sager: Losing the Charity Hall was a major blow to JAPW. While I hated the building and it had a low roof and I always wanted to move out of there to somewhere bigger, it was still home and was the place it all began for JAPW. The Charity Hall had tons of history and personality. The location was great, it was close in proximity to New York and was easily accessible by train and by car for New Jersey fans. The Charity Hall also had its own built in fan base right in Bayonne.

We found the Hungarian American Center in Woodbridge, NJ. I also loved that building, it had a great aura to it, it just felt like a place wrestling should be held. Unfortunately we out grew that building right after our first show their, as it was standing room only. Next up was the Center Circle in Rahway, NJ. The Center Circle was great size wise, but it was all floor seats and the acoustics sucked in that building, it just didn't have a good feel to it. Our new home is the Rahway Recreation Center which is right behind the Center Circle. I don't think there is a better facility to run shows at. It is brand new, huge, airy, and has huge bleachers which provide a better view for our fans rather than sitting on the floor. We have built a great relationship with the Rec Center and JAPW is actively trying to become more involved in the community with civic groups and youth groups so we can give back to the community that supports us. Another reason we chose the Rec Center is that is centrally located between Philly and New York and there is a train station that is only a quarter mile from the facility that comes in right from New York and Bayonne.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: JAPW in the latter half of 2003 used a lot of WWE and ex WWE wrestlers on their shows. Do you think this strategy paid off? If not, why do you think it failed?

Ray Sager: I think it definitely paid off, JAPW used those wrestlers to bring in the casual wrestling fan that don't watch independent wrestling or may not know about independent wrestling. We have gained so many casual fans that are now regulars at our events that it has paid off a few times over already. It is a smart business practice and we will continue to use WWE and ex WWE wrestlers on occasion to help us bring in the casual wrestling fan. There are tons of WWE fans that don't watch independent wrestling so if we can make them fans it is a win win situation. Currently we have gone back and catered more towards the smart fan with the talent that we are using, however the fan base that we have brought in have grown to know our workers and will appreciate the talent who we bring in.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What promotion do you think is number 2 in NJ?

Ray Sager: That is definitely a loaded question, cause however I answer someone will have heat with me, lol. Well, there are more feds in NJ than there are minutes in the Masked Maniac Hotline, about 213647596452 Indy feds in NJ, talk about oversaturation.

Well, here are the top 3, besides JAPW, in no particular order.

(JCW) Ricky O has a good track record, has been around a while, his J Cup is one of the better tournaments out there.

(SSCW) Carmine made his smartest move by having Simon Diamond on board, he is committed to improving, Simons experience will help immensely.

(NWS) Joe and Gino have been running shows forever, they have a long track record and are very consistent drawing good numbers.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What are your feelings on the RF scandal? Would you have a problem supporting them?

Ray Sager: I was shocked and couldn't believe what happened, I though it was some sick joke at first but then when I realized it was real I felt bad for all the workers and employees that he betrayed. He tarnished the reputation and spit on everything that all of the wrestlers built.

I am a fan of ROH, I was shocked by this scandal. I have been friends with Doug a long time and have known Gabe a long time as well. As long as Rob is no longer part of the company then I can support the product.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What do you think about message boards and are you Fecal Threats?

Ray Sager: I love the message boards, it is the best place to gauge fans reaction to things, it can be a great tool if used correctly. There will always be fake posts, there will always be bashing, it really is never gonna end, some of it is funny, some of it is down right hurtful and wrong, and some posts really make people look bad. I would love to see more wrestling talk and less slander. My favorite posts are the ones from anonymous fans posting how JAPW sucks lol.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What is your favorite strip club? Do you think Breathless is overrated?

Ray Sager: Well, Mic, I like Breathless but you already know that lol, I also like Liquid Assets, and I know you like that as well. Breathless is great, nice, clean, tons and I mean tons of women, a constant flow, free buffet at midnight, the only drawback is that you need to bring a lot of singles. Liquid is great if you like Latina Booty.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What are your thoughts on Frankie Starz, and the revival of UWA?

Ray Sager: Who ?? J/K, Actually Frankie has talked bad about me in the past but I could care less, I got more important things to worry about like making JAPW a better product and staying fresh and ahead of everybody else. I am glad Frankie has gotten another break and is back in the wrestling business, I believe the state of NJ is oversaturated but if the boys can get steady work and get a steady pay day then it is good so I wish the UWA luck.

I have read some posts how UWA is using some old JAPW gimmicks and some of our fans have complained but if the UWA feels that they need to rehash some of our older angles and storylines then so be it, It is a compliment that they are trying to be like us, so I wish them luck and hope those gimmicks work for them too. Competition is great, it makes everyone else better so I hope they do good.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What are your thoughts on the G-Tickler?

Ray Sager: I have no comment on the G Tickler as I dont want to get punched in the face, right Mic?

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: If you were booking the WWE what changes would you make?

Ray Sager: Right off the bat, brand extension done over with for ever. Paul Heyman brings back an ECW faction, Eric Bishoff brings back a WCW faction. The McMahon family fights for their company. Do the damn thing right this time. Get rid of some dead weight, hire some more athletic younger wrestlers, focus on wrestling, a lot less talking.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What do you think is your biggest strong point as a booker? Weakpoint?

Ray Sager: I think that I am very open and easily approachable. I am willing to take ideas from the workers an incorporate those into the show, some guys have to much of an ego to even take one idea. I love giving new talent a chance and I think I have a good eye for talent. My weak points I think I try to do to much sometimes and it gets to be overkill on a show.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What do you think about the current state of the Indies? What do you think needs to be done to draw more fans?

Ray Sager: Wrestling is a very trendy sport, unfortunately when business is bad in the WWE it trickles down to the Indies and is bad for us, when they are doing good we are doing good. The last year or so things have been in a down trend, a few months back the Garden barely had 10,000 fans. I think business is going to pick up again and good things will follow for the

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: Is there any plans for JAPW to venture into other states again? Could a NY show be far off?

Ray Sager: Well, I answered that above, especially about New York. We are a New Jersey based company so the majority of our shows are going to be New Jersey based. We are however looking into the possibility of running a show a little further South where wrestling isn't as saturated as up here in the North. We are just exploring these options but nothing is set in stone right now. There is also a chance of returning to Philadelphia as well but that isn't set in stone either.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What JAPW wrestlers do you see as WWE bound? What wrestlers in JAPW do you think have no chance at all of making the WWE?

Ray Sager: Wrestling is in a sad state right now, back in the day young up and coming wrestlers had WWE, WCW, ECW, AWA, NWA and the territories, now it is WWE and Japan. I feel bad for a lot of guys, everybody has their dream, but realistically there is about a 5 percent chance of making it a full time career right now. Some workers have it and some don't. In JAPW I think Slyk and April have a great chance, Teddy Hart would also be a good choice. Dan Maff would make a great heel, bring back Savio Vega and restart Los Boriquas.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What are your career goals in wrestling?

Ray Sager: I achieved each and every goal I set for myself in wrestling, my goals were pretty low so it was easy to reach. But I am living a dream and having fun doing it.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: What do you want to say to anyone reading this?

Ray Sager: Don't forget our next event will be Saturday April 24, 2004 in Rahway, NJ. It will feature Teddy Hart has an open challenge, The Stampede Bulldogs vs The Backseat Boyz, Dan Maff vs Mike Awesome, M Dogg 20 vs Roderick Strong, Jay Lethal vs Azrieal, Justice Pain vs Xavier, The Solution vs The Shaolin Wrecking Crew, and hopefully a major surprise to be announced shortly.

Visit www.modtrom.com for all your official JAPW videos, they are 2 camera shot, announcers, replays, music videos, interviews and so many more special features. Modtrom is the only place to get this version and they are the cheapest around.

Visit www.japw.net for the Jersey All Pro Wrestling web site, we are back under construction but all features will be up shortly.

Thank you Mic and thank you DOI.

Sean "The MiC" McCaffrey: Thank you Ray for this great interview, and the next lapdance is on Papadon.