Welcome wrestling fans. Todays McInterview, was with Carmine Sabia, aka CJ Storm aka the owner/promoter of SSCW. (Stars and Stripes Championship Wrestling) You can follow the SSCW at http://www.sscwwrestling.com You can also see my award winning columns there as well. SSCW is the central promotion of the newly founded UWS, which is talked about in depth here. SSCW recently featured Scott Steiner vs. Steve Corino for the SSCW World Championship, which Steiner ultimately was stripped of due to his WWE duties.

In this long interview, Carmine comments on all promotions in the NY/NJ/PA area, comments on wrestlers and promoters and talks about the state of the game. Its a good interview and was easy to conduct. Enjoy. Any feedback can be sent to themic@sscwwrestling.com or to talk to Carmine about SSCW, you can email him at cj@sscwwrestling.com Enjoy

Sean The MiC McCaffrey (from here on in known as The MiC) How did you get into the wrestling business? Did you start off as a wrestler or were you always a promoter?

Carmine: Long story so I'll make it as short as possible. I was working as a telemarketer in 1996 in Bloomfield, NJ. A friend of mine that worked with me named Steve Cerruto told me a promotion he worked for which ran dark shows was missing a wrestler and they wanted me to fill in because I had amateur wrestled (Now at the time being 16 I had no idea what a dark show or an athletic commission was). Anyway I got a few quick lessons from the guys that ran SSWA, (thats the company I eventually took over and renamed SSCW), Johnny Dreamer and Kevin Knight and next thing you know I am in the ring. And sweeping locker rooms, getting coffee, selling tickets, selling ads, doing what I can to be a part of the business. The friendships with Dreamer and Knight still exist to this day though we did travel down some rocky roads at some points.

The MiC: Can you tell us why you stopped wrestling? And what do you prefer, wrestling or being the promoter? In today's times, the promoters not always the most liked guy...

Carmine: In any time in history the promoter is not the most liked guy. Basically I stunk at wrestling and didn't particularly care for getting smashed with chairs. I decided after my first taste of wrestling I had to be in it, around it, but wasn't sure which path to take. Between the ages of 17 and 19 I talked to guys like Bobby Reidel, Mr. Dennis Coraluzzo (RIP), Tony Rumble (RIP), Walter Kowalski, Tommy Fierro, Afa and a few others and I realized what I wanted to do was be a promoter. I love the entire package that comes with being a promoter. From story writing, to booking to getting sponsors. Every little thing about it I love. I am fortunate enough to have a guy like Angel Surita-Martinez to do alot of the work and help me every step of the way

The MiC: Being a promoter, comes alot of financial responsibility. How do you determine who and how to book a show? And as a follow up, why do you use Angel Martinez, when ultimately, you will be the one to fly or crash and burn financially?

Carmine: It comes down to simple mathematics. If wrestler A is = to wrestler B in skills and wrestler A wants exposure and understands the business and will take say $25 and wrestler B, who has been around alot longer but is comparable in skill to wrestler A, want $75 - $100 you book wrestler A. You also want to make sure the guys/girls you book meet certain standards. Locker room professionals, follow direction, little to no ego that impairs their judgment of what is best for the company. Things like that. You also don't book people that you know have given other promoters problems in the past. As far as Angel goes his role here is simple to understand yet complex in nature. Angel holds the distinction of being one of the VERY FEW people in this business that has earned my trust. He is always looking out for the good of SSCW and of me. He does more to save me money then I do sometimes. I can't stress strongly enough what a valuable asset he has been to SSCW as a booker/General manager and more importantly as a true friend and confidant to me.

The MiC: Thanks for clearing it up, but as a follow up to understand your logic, you would book a young star such as Deranged or Livewyre then an older name star such as Hacksaw Duggan or Balls Mahoney?

Carmine: Now it gets tricky. I would book Deranged or Livewyre over Balls Mahoney because frankly they would probably draw more fan interest. A guy like Hacksaw Jim Duggan is a different case. You want to appeal to a parents sense of nostalgia. Parents are more likely to take their family to a show if they recognize at least one of the names. So no names are a special case but they follow the same scale. You just use bigger numbers. If a name a wants 500 and name b wants 1500 you have to weight what you think each name can draw you in terms of fans and then you make your judgment. Some names are worth alot more then others. You try to guess who the fans want to see and hope you are right. Though in SSCW we fully solicit the opinions of our fans so we can bring them a product tailored to what they want to see. So to answer your question Sean that comparison is apples and oranges.

The MiC: I understand, so basically what you are saying is, you would book a name indy star to attract parents to your show, so they could bring their kids with them, to generate interest?

Carmine: Basically. The Ultimate goal is to get the fans interested in your wrestlers so they come back if you have a big name or not.

The MiC: Ok, moving on, the biggest news right now in the indies, promotion wise, even news that was covered in a major magazine (Pro Wrestling Illustrated) is the UWS, (Unified Wrestling Syndicate) can you let us know, what is the point of the UWS, how it came together, and what do you ultimately hope to accomplish with it?

Carmine: Well it came together simply enough. It was an idea I had, mind you not all that original as others have had this same idea in the past, and I discussed it with Joe Panzerino of NWS and Ricky O of JCW and they liked the idea a lot as well. The biggest hurdle was probably all of us dropping our guard enough to come together on it. The point of UWS is to grow and add companies from around the United States and, in fact, the world to get a product with enough global appeal to get us big sponsorships from major companies and hopefully lead to National TV. We also hope to produce shows in such a way that our wrestlers get work in more organizations on a more national and global scale thus increasing their exposure. there are alot of goals that we have not yet made public that I can not get into right now but I can say we are still actively seeking new member promotions.

The MiC: Is the UWS going to be like the NWA of the 50s-70s? And by forming the UWS, what does it offer to the workers as in terms of money, benefits and being exclusive to just the UWS promotions?

Carmine: Well not even Miss Cleo can predict the future as we have learned Sean but yes that would be one of our goals. As far as the workers it offers them more exposure on a more National and global scale. We aren't in a position at this point to talk about exclusivity.

The MiC: For the record, can you list all the UWS promotions and where they run out of, so our fans know where to go, to see the UWS in action?

Carmine: As of right now, and remember we grow every week, You can catch SSCW, NWS and JCW all in New Jersey. You can catch PCW in Winnipeg Canada, Danger Zone in North Carolina and Extreme Texas Wrestling in Texas.

The MiC: How did you go about contacting PCW, Danger Zone and ETW? What is your selling point to get a promotion to join you in the UWS?

Carmine: You make contacts over the course of year Sean. But the selling point is simple. Unlike an NWA the UWS charges no dues and we have a clear, well thought out picture of the future and how the future includes putting money in the pockets of our members. It's not a hard thing to sell. Everything to gain and nothing to lose. We are however picky as to who we let in.

The MiC: I am going to ask you about a few promotions, can you give us insight if the following will be joining UWS, or if they are not considered? USA PRO or the NYWC. The reason being that they have the almighty NY Promoters License. Also could we see JAPW joining the ranks, especially since they are working with IPW out of Florida? And lastly, what about the upper echelon of indy promotions - 3PW, CZW or ROH?

Carmine: Well that NY license may not be worth the paper it is written on soon Sean. But I don't think any of the promotions you mentioned are particularly UWS bound. Maybe and Maybe not. But as far as "upper echelon" I don't see how any of them or us is upper echelon. Remember Sean on the very website you are writing this article for right now, The Wrestling Clothesline, all those promotions have 1 thing in common. SSCW beat them all for promotion of the year. And if you want to talk about upper echelon start with ECWA and Jim Kettner.

The MiC: Very true statements. But to clear up, the reason I mention "upper echelon" was based on ticket sales, merchandise, and national exposure. When will the first joint UWS show be held, and with new champions to come out of this, does the UWS recoginize one world champion, or every world champion out of every members promotion?

Carmine: Well first let me clear something up. I have nothing against any of those promotions. But SSCW is not in the business of purchasing our press either. Not one of those promotions ever held an event as grand in magnitude as SSCW's HELL-O-WEEN but they certainly got more exposure for it. As for the first joint show it is a project we are currently working on. And while each company will recognize their own company champions and tag champions we will all recognize 1 World Heavyweight and tag Team Champions.

The MiC: When will the first UWS show be announced?

Carmine: Well again it is a project that myself and the rest of the Board of Governors is currently working on. I'd expect an announcement sometime in late spring/early summer.

The MiC: Moving past UWS... SSCW has had some hard times to begin 2003. A show was cancelled in January, and rescheduled for March. Do you think SSCW "blew its load" so to speak on Hell-O-Ween? Or do you think that wrestling, in its down period, is hurting independent business, because other indy shows were cancelled as well around this time.

Carmine: January is a notoriously bad month for wrestling. But all in all you can look at it one of 2 ways. In some ways because wrestling is down right now it is hard to get people out to a show. On the other hand fans are looking for an alternative so we have a good deal of appeal that way. What it mostly comes down to right now is a lackluster economy and the threat of an impending war. people are tightening the belt strings and we, like every other business and industry, are feeling the effects. As far as HELL-O-WEEN it put SSCW into that "upper-echelon" you speak of and frankly we made money on it so no that has had no bearing on the current lull in business. Talk to Allen Greenspan he can give you more info regarding that.

The MiC: What can the fans expect from the next SSCW show, and what will they see in the future as in terms of talent? On your own site, we saw that Billy Reil has been "fired" so to speak, as well as other talents being released. Will this free up room for new talent?

Carmine: The fans can expect to see the cutting edge, fast paced action they have always seen from SSCW. They will just see it with some new faces. They will also see SSCW continue to lead the way in booking big name talent. We are most certainly freeing up space for younger and newer talent to come in and bring the fans more action and excitement. Even my favorite team, the NY Yankees, has to retool and get younger from time to time to stay at the top.

The MiC: Understood, now to get to what people really want to see, I'm going to play a form of word association with you. Basically just comment as much as you want on the following.

The MiC: 1. JAPW
Carmine: Quality and Longevity.

The MiC: JCW
Carmine: Determination and solid leadership.

The MiC: Fat Frank
Carmine: Nicer then people think he is.

The MiC: NWS
Carmine: Good family entertainment.

The MiC: Quality of NWS?
Carmine: Some shows are better then others. They appeal to a different audience then your typical ROH fan. But I would say top quality talent and great entertainment value.

The MiC: ROH
Carmine: Too many lightweights for me. Not enough variety. That said they have one heck of a great promotions and definitely are a leader in our industry.

The MiC: CZW
Carmine: Not my cup of tea at all.

The MiC: USA PRO and Frank Goodman
Carmine: Too many matches, too many untrained "wrestlers" too many names. 6 hours is too long to watch wrestling.

The MiC: NYWC and John Curse
Carmine: Never even heard of them.

The MiC: PCW and Donnie
Carmine: Great product and a good direction. Donnie is a friend.

The MiC: ECWA and Jim Kettner
Carmine: The absolute tops in indy wrestling.

The MiC: IHPW and Pete Ferriero
Carmine: Good potential, young upstart company. pete is a fine young promoter with alot of potential to be sure. He is certainly one of my closest friends in this business.

The MiC: NWA TNA
Carmine: Maybe another year.

The MiC: Vince Russo
Carmine: Overrated.

The MiC: WWE and Vince McMahon
Carmine: Ok how about I don't give you the typical "kiss Vince's a$$ response to this". He made the business. WWE leads and we follow. This is all true. But right now he needs to get his hands dirty and get back into the product because the ship needs to be righted for all of our own good. he is our leader so we are all rooting for them.

The MiC: Interesting, and finally The re-born ICW and Jack Sabboth
Carmine: Don't know enough about them except they need to realize NJ is a much tougher gig the NY.

The MiC: I'll come back to NJ wrestling in a moment, but give us some word association on the following wrestlers>

The MiC: Scott Steiner, former SSCW champion
Carmine: Scott stop making me look stupid.

The MiC: Can you explain that comment further?
Carmine: Helluva nice guy with tremendous gifts. I want him to work up to his limitless potential. His match with Steve Corino at HELL-O-WEEN is the best match he has had since he returned to the ring. Gotta take it up a notch on the big stage.

The MiC: Do you think the HHH factor might be part of his WWE "failure" so to speak? And can you comment about HHH as well?
Carmine: I like games as much as anyone. I'm a big fan of Monopoly. But ya know what. Every game gets boring after a while.

The MiC: interesting

The MiC: Stone Cold Steve Austin
Carmine: Heat magnet. Glad he is back.

The MiC: The Rock
Carmine: Best promo in the business. But where's the hair?

The MiC: Hulk Hogan
Carmine: The reason we are sitting here having this discussion.

The MiC: Shawn Michaels
Carmine: One of the best performers of our generation and of all time. And refreshing to see the way he praises The Lord.

The MiC: SSCW alum Bret "The Hitman" Hart
Carmine: One of my 2 all time favorites. Best technical wrestler of our time or perhaps any time.

The MiC: Moving back into the indies, Steve Corino
Carmine: Can make a broomstick look good.

The MiC: Rob Eckos
Carmine: Future star. Mark my words.

The MiC: SWC
Carmine: Underrated.

The MiC: DRS
Carmine: Electrifying.

The MiC: Johnny Thunder
Carmine: Steadily improving.

The MiC: Billy Reil
Carmine: Ultra talented with a mouth as big as Texas.

The MiC: Justin Credible
Carmine: Never got the chance he deserved.

The MiC: Devon "Crowbar" Storm
Carmine: See: Justin Credible.

The MiC: and finally Carmine Sabia and SSCW
Carmine: Well definitely the best looking promoter on the indies (laughs). Um how does one describe themselves? I'd say Carmine has a good vision of where to take SSCW and the UWS. And SSCW. Well SSCW is simply the top of the heap in independent wrestling but we share that distinction with alot of other promotions.

The MiC: Moving on, can you comment about the abundance of indy wrestling in New Jersey. As pointed out by Angel Martinez, more promotions may mean more money for wrestlers, but might overall hurt indy wrestling, due to many promotions not delivering quality. What do you think about that, and expanding on that, what promotions will you go see, and which promotions will you not give the light of day to?
Carmine: Wow this is a "shoot" question for sure. yes it's good for workers. yes it hurts the business when every wrestler tries to start ABC wrestling company with the sole intent and purpose of putting over themselves and their friends. I'd personally as a fan see SSCW first lol. I'd also want to see NWS, JCW, JAPW, ECPW, PCW and IHPW. After that I'd probably stop watching NJ wrestling.

Carmine: Actually let me expand on that.

The MiC: go ahead this is your forum to do so

Carmine: I would say SSCW, JCW, and JAPW appeal to one audience. An audience that probably wouldn't care for the other promotions. And NWS, ECPW cater to a different audience. IHPW and PCW are coming off a term of regenerating themselves so i don't know exactly what direction they are taking their respective companies in. But I know 6 months ago when they were running they were worth the money.

The MiC: Now that we know what you like, can you tell us what promotions in the NY/NJ/PA area that you think really suck?
Carmine: Woah that is a loaded question Sean. Let me take a step back from that and say this. There are products out there that don't appeal to my particular taste. That doesn't mean they suck though. In my estimation if you want the most for your money hours wise visit USA pro and bring a cot. I'm not a big fan of CZW. I don't care for SWF run by New Wave and I am not a big fan of Heritage. That doesn't mean they suck they just wouldn't be up my alley.

The MiC: It's a tough question to answer, can you tell us about workers that you think are great, as in terms of professionalism and working and on the flipside, can you tell us what workers you can't stand due to professionalism or other issues?
Carmine: I enjoy working with Rob Eckos, Damian Adams, Josh Daniels, Magic, Suba, Dirty Rotten Scoundrelz, Chino and Angel Martinez, actually look at the sscwwrestling.com roster page those are professionals and gentlemen/ladies. And speaking of ladies I particularly care for Noel, Ariel, Alicia, Miss Michelle, Becky Bayless and Bobcat as far as professionalism goes. Now I don't want to discredit anyone so I really would rather not say who I have issue with in terms of being unprofessional except to say workers who demand more money, more power, etc.......are people you don't want to work with. I would put Alura in that category. Her ego got to big too soon and she couldn't handle it.

The MiC: What about male wrestlers, can you let us know who you think are overpriced and who would never be able to work in SSCW again, or ever?
Carmine: Again this is a touchy issue but I would put a Lo Ki in that category for reasons going far beyond the financial. I don't think you would see Monsta Mack in SSCW anytime soon. Not saying anything particularly against them they just aren't the kind of guys we look for in SSCW. In SSCW every cog must fit into the machine to make a better machine. No monkey wrenches.

The MiC: Wow, can you expand on Low Ki, as he is a major indy star. Also you rule out Monsta Mack of Da Hit Squad, would Maffia be invited to compete in SSCW. We've seen that Maffia can hold his own, by becoming the JAPW World Champion at the JAPW 2/22/03 show.
Carmine: Congratulations to Maffia. he can definitely hold his own and he and Homicide are guys I can certainly picture in an SSCW ring. As far as Lo Ki goes him and Mack basically fall into the same category. They are great. And if you don't believe me just ask them. They'll tell you all about it.

The MiC: Hmm, interesting. Can you let us know about any future SSCW plans about coming to the NY area?
Carmine: That depends on the progress of where the athletic commission is headed. if the athletic commission disbands as it seems it is then you can expect us there early in 2004.

The MiC: We've seen ROH use Frank Goodman, of USA PRO, NY license, could we see a similar deal with SSCW?
Carmine: No. We do everything on our own. We like it that way.

The MiC: What do you think about the coverage of indy wrestling in the media? Most magazines ignore it, how do you think is the best way to promote indy wrestling?
Carmine: Word of mouth from our fans. Good solid competition as well. if a fan goes to see a JCW, JAPW, ROH or IHPW (to name a few) show and then they see a flyer for ours they are more likely to come to our show because they have already had a good experience with indy wrestling. On the flip side if they go to see Joe backyarder in the local YMCA and then they see a flyer for our show chances are they have already been turned off to the concept of indy wrestling.

The MiC: It's been known that Angel Martinez does most of the promoting so to speak, can you let us know what you do, to promote the show, as in terms of advertising?
Carmine: Actually I do most of the promoting. Angel helps and is in charge of an entirely different division of the company so to speak. I get the TV ads, newspaper ads, flyers printed, radio interviews, print interviews, such as this interview that I promote.

The MiC: You mention radio, can you comment, if anything at all, about a relationship with Sir Adam and The Phantom, who run the only wrestling radio show in the NY/NJ area?
Carmine: I don't know them well enough to comment but the show is very good, very well run.

The MiC: Can you comment on the newsletter coming out around the indies, The Declaration of Independents? Is this something that indy wrestling sorely needs?
Carmine: I like the idea of an all - indy newsletter. It's a fantastic concept and SSCW will work closely with them to make it work.

The MiC: SSCW is supposed to be getting a TV Deal, called tentatively called Adrenaline, can you comment on it? What can we expect from Adrenaline? Will there be anyway for people not in the TV area to get tapes of the show?
Carmine: You'll get to see the top matches from SSCW and yes tapes will be made available. It will be due out in the early spring in NJ. Check http://www.sscwwrestling.com for more details.

The MiC: Finally, here is the infamous open floor, please tell everyone what you need to get off your chest or any closing comments
Carmine: Well Sean I'd like to see the fans come out and support their local indy federation. Get those butts in the seats and support the backbone of our business. I don't feel the need to say any more then that as you give a great interview and I think we covered everything. Thanks again Sean.

The MiC: Thank you Carmine, and good luck handling "The MiC" at future shows
Carmine: Thank you, and dont worry about The MiC. (laughs)

Thanks for reading questions, comments, beef? Email me at themic@sscwwrestling.com